U.N. Expert Francesca Albanese Slams U.S. “Complicity” as Trump Meets Netanyahu Despite ICC Warrant

We speak to Francesca Albanese, the United Nations special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territory, about Israel’s continued impunity from international law. Despite an International Criminal Court warrant out for his arrest, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently visited the White House to meet with President Donald Trump. While the United States is not a member state to the ICC, “It doesn’t mean that they have to extend protection to a fugitive from international law,” says Albanese, who joins widespread international calls for Netanyahu’s arrest. “The United States is actively contributing to make the international criminal law architecture that it has been building, from the Nuremberg trials up until now, crumble on our head.”

Albanese also comments on settler- and soldier-led “pogroms” in the occupied West Bank and calls out the complicity of the governments of Greece, Italy and France, which, despite being party to the ICC, authorized Netanyahu’s travel through their airspaces. “It looks small in the context of a genocide, but every action matters, as every crime matters and will be accounted for,” she says.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Anjali Kamat, longtime Democracy Now! producer, who’s back with us after many years producing and co-hosting. Welcome, Anjali.

ANJALI KAMAT: I’m delighted to be back. Thank you. And welcome to all our viewers and listeners from across the country and around the world.

President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met at the White House Tuesday for their first meeting since the two nations jointly attacked Iran five months ago. Trump and Netanyahu met for 90 minutes, but they did not appear together to make public comments. Netanyahu posted a short video after the meeting?

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] I just finished an excellent meeting with President Trump. When I say “excellent,” it’s not just lip service — a conversation with full partnership, mutual support, understanding of the common goal, to ensure that Iran does not have nuclear weapons, and other goals, as well. This is one of the best conversations I have had with the president of the United States, our friend, President Donald Trump.

AMY GOODMAN: After their meeting, both Trump and Netanyahu attended the funeral of Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. Meanwhile, protesters in Washington gathered near the White House to condemn Netanyahu’s visit. This is an Iranian American activist named Bita.

BITA: And he is the reason for the illegal war that has started on my homeland of Iran, that is also currently being bombarded. And every time he comes to visit, our people, our countries get bombarded again. And we are here to make sure that our voices are heard and he knows that we don’t want him here. He is not welcome here. We know that he’s a war criminal. We want bombs to stop falling on our people.

ANJALI KAMAT: Netanyahu’s visit comes as Israel is escalating its military operations in the occupied West Bank, where there’s been a surge in settler violence. On Tuesday, Defense Minister Israel Katz announced that he’s ordered the IDF to take over a fourth refugee camp in the West Bank and expel its Palestinian residents. Israel is also continuing to carry out deadly attacks in Gaza, where a severe humanitarian crisis is unceasing. The Trump administration allowed Netanyahu into the United States even though the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for Netanyahu for war crimes in Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re joined now by a top U.N. official who’s been barred from visiting the United States due to her public criticism of Israel. Francesca Albanese is the U.N. special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territory. She’s been under sweeping U.S. sanctions for most of the past year. A judge lifted them briefly, then they were reimposed. She’s also author of the new book When the World Sleeps: Stories, Words and Wounds of Palestine.

Francesca, thank you so much for being with us from Italy. If you can start off — I mean, this was unusual yesterday. I think it was Netanyahu’s seventh visit to Washington since Trump returned to the White House. It was his first since the beginning of the U.S. and Israel’s attack on Iran. And interestingly, though we see a video of Netanyahu saying it was the best conversation they ever had, Trump, in a rare move, did not invite reporters into the White House for either a photo op or conversations afterwards. And apparently the conversation was about Iran. Yet in Israel, the Israeli military has launched major operations in the occupied West Bank. Now the Israeli defense minister, as we just said, saying they’re taking over a fourth Palestinian refugee camp. Can you assess the situation and the significance of this meeting?

FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Thank you for having me, Amy.

Having an ICC wanted in the White House again just corroborates the charges of complicity leveled at the U.S. administration. This is bullying in a sort of a formal diplomatic suit. But again, since Netanyahu’s last visit to the U.S., the list of crimes that have happened, that the Israeli army, but also Israeli civilians, have committed against the Palestinians, has just grown longer and more documented by Israeli and Palestinian human rights organizations and U.N. commission of inquiries, other committees, myself and other special rapporteurs.

What does it mean? You know, I often hear the argument that the United States is not a member to the ICC. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t mean that they have to extend protection to a fugitive from international law, which is what happened, what’s happening. At the same time, this is not just a fugitive. This is an accomplice to other violations of international law that the U.S. is committing itself against Iran and against Palestinians, in many ways. So, what does it tell us, in a nutshell, that the United States is actively contributing to make the international criminal law architecture that it has been building from Nuremberg, the Nuremberg trials up until now, crumble on our head? And this is no — I mean, this should make no one happy, including U.S. citizens who think that they have nothing to do with it or with Israel and Palestine. This is everyone’s business.

ANJALI KAMAT: Francesca, I want to turn to a clip of New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani. Last week, in a video message, he called on the U.S. government to arrest Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, precisely because of this arrest warrant issued by the International Criminal Court.

MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI: As I’ve said, I agree with the ICC that Benjamin Netanyahu should be arrested and tried for his crimes, as I do for anyone else charged by the ICC. My administration has reviewed every avenue available under applicable law to determine whether New York City could execute the International Criminal Court’s arrest warrant if Benjamin Netanyahu came here. It is clear that we do not have the independent legal authority to enforce this warrant. The federal government, however, does, and I call on them to join the ICC and execute this warrant. And I want to be equally clear: Benjamin Netanyahu is not welcome in New York City, nor is any other war criminal at large.

ANJALI KAMAT: Francesca, Prime Minister Netanyahu said in an interview on Fox News in response that Mamdani was, quote, “fomenting hate.” And you posted on X as Netanyahu was en route to the U.S. that, quote, “Italy, France, Greece did it again. Three Rome Statute parties opened their airspace to fugitive Netanyahu, in breach of their obligation to cooperate with the ICC. I call on competent authorities to investigate possible complicity.” Talk about what you’re calling on countries to do, including the United States.

FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Very simple. No double standards apply, international law as it is. It’s paraphrasing Rosa Luxemburg. It’s either the rule of law, or it’s barbarism.

I do agree with what New York mayor has just said, and not out of sympathy, but because what he said is legally right and is morally compulsory. And we cannot keep on looking idle or standing idle in the face of impunity. This is why, at the beginning of this interview, when you asked me what I think of this visit by ICC-wanted Benjamin Netanyahu, it’s bullying. It’s bullying in diplomatic suit, because, I mean, the New York mayor might not have the power to enforce an arrest on an head of state, and still he called upon competent authorities, federal authorities, to do so.

It doesn’t matter that it doesn’t happen today because there is someone who prefers to abide by the law of might rather than the rule of law. We need to keep on voicing dissent in conformity with international law. This is what I keep on doing from within Europe as a European. It doesn’t matter if they ridicule me, if they mount hatred campaign or smear campaign against me. My skin has grown thicker, as I think everyone who’s dealing with justice and human rights.

And at the same time, we need to recall the obligations that these states, including, as I said, Greece, Italy and France, have. This is the third time, if my count is correct, that these three countries authorized flights of ICC-wanted Netanyahu over their airspace, I mean, making all of us, all of these — all European, French, German — sorry, Greece — Greek and Italian citizens accomplices, even morally. This is unacceptable. And this is why there should be an investigation over the authorities who allowed it. It looks small in the context of a genocide, but every action matters, as every crime matters and will be accounted for.

ANJALI KAMAT: Francesca, let’s go to the West Bank. I mean, you recently posted on social media that ”POGROMS against defenseless civilians [are happening] all over the West Bank (while Gaza is under fire). Israeli civilians and army joining forces. It is not just Netanyahu,” you wrote, “and a few ‘rotten apples.’ THIS IS ISRAEL.”

FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Absolutely. And look at what Israelis themselves are saying. I want to point to the fact that an increasing number of Israeli organizations, political forces, journalists have been sounding the alarm for over a year, and especially in the latest — in the latest days, in recent days, that the situation is out of control. A few days ago, A Land for All coalition said the Israeli forces cannot keep control, cannot ensure — cannot ensure protection of anyone, because the settlers. Who are the settlers? These are Israeli civilians who behave like thugs, who behave like squads, who have been killing and beating, attacking Palestinian families and properties. And they are completely unleashed, supported by the army.

Look, I’ve been investigating. I was no expert on the occupied Palestinian territory until four years ago. I was an expert on the question of Palestine. And now I know what happens in Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem better than anything else, because this is what I do. I look at it every day. And in a time of genocide, I cannot let it go.

And I can tell you, the pogroms have been constant, a constant feature of settlers, of Israeli — armed Israeli civilians since before October 2023. Just in 2023, before October 7, there were 12 pogroms, meaning attacks by armed squads, Israeli civilian squads attacking Palestinian villages, and everyone seemed not to care. It’s better we take a — we pay attention now, because the situation has gone out of control. And I keep on saying I’m not just talking for Palestinians. I’m talking for everyone in that land, including Israelis, who clearly see what’s happening. But unfortunately, the weight of the pro-Israel and the pro-apartheid lobbies is just too strong for their voices to be heard.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to very quickly ask you — I mean, you have the opposition leader, Lapid, saying — this is not you, Francesca Albanese; this is him, saying — “I never thought that in my lifetime we would talk about Jewish terrorism. But this is Jewish terror,” he said about Israeli settlers in the West Bank. And, of course, you then have Israeli soldiers who are working with Israeli settlers.

FRANCESCA ALBANESE: I had missed that. Thank you, Amy. And, well, finally, me and Lapid agree. And the thing is — the thing is that this should have been said months and years ago. But the fact that Lapid says that proves that the situation has gone out of control.

And again, it’s not just Netanyahu. Half of the government’s inside colonization. I’ve received — I don’t read Hebrew, but I’ve been receiving screenshots of chats in Hebrew by Israeli activists and academics who keep on sounding the alarm. And they say they are calling for blood. They say “no house units, but blood.”

Now, I just want to remind, in closing, that the West Bank, as well as Gaza and East Jerusalem, are illegally occupied. There is no possibility for Israel, settlers or soldiers, to invoke self-defense there, because the International Court of Justice has ordered Israel to dismantle the occupation.

So, I really encourage every, every U.S. citizen, with that place at heart, but also with U.S. values at heart, not to turn your eyes and your gaze away, because this is happening — the U.S. support to this criminal endeavor is happening with your taxpayers’ money.

AMY GOODMAN: Very quickly, we just have 20 seconds. Your comment on the U.S. walking out of the U.N. Security Council meeting Tuesday during the French ambassador’s remarks, coming after France blasted the U.S. for voting to — for voting against extending Volker Türk’s term as U.N. high commissioner for human rights? France saying on X, “The US used to be a beacon of human rights. Not anymore.” Francesca Albanese?

FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Well, I don’t think that U.S. used to be a beacon of human rights absolutely, but surely it was much better than that, and clearly is no longer. Not only that, now it’s really leading a campaign, from the Board of Peace, whatever it is, to where it stand on Venezuela, Cuba and Israel or Iran. It’s leading a campaign to dismantle the multilateral order that was conceived, including through the U.S. support, in the aftermath of the World War — of World War II.

AMY GOODMAN: Francesca Albanese, U.N. special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territory. Her new book, When the World Sleeps: Stories, Words and Wounds of Palestine.

Coming up, the Cyclospora outbreak. Thousands are experiencing this parasite around the United States and the biggest measles outbreak in 35 years. What does this have to do with the DOGE sweeping cuts to public health programs? We’ll speak with a former medical officer at the CDC. Stay with us.

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AMY GOODMAN: “Hog of the Forsaken” by the late folk musician Michael Hurley in our Democracy Now! studio.